#(who translated it into a language that you can read

[judesmoonbeauty]

My Thoughts & Spoilers On Jude's Route

This will contain detailed major route spoilers. If you do not want to be spoiled, please move on because I will not be filtering my review. Also, not all spoilers and details are being shared. This is intentional. Bear in mind this is written prior to my thoroughly translating his route, so the translation may have some adjustments to this information.

So, I really LOVED it!! It's a very good storyline. Am I biased? Yes. However, whether you're romantically interested in Jude or not, I feel like you'll like in route in general. I do highly recommend reading his and Ellis' Past Records before his route if you can. His route does bring up clips from PR, but it's very minimal and there's a lot of context and extra details in PR that you don't get in this MS. I did my best with this, but my thoughts are still every where, so if it doesn't make sense. My bad.

Tropes: Enemies to Lovers....of sorts?, Slow-burn. Key Side Villain Characters: Ellis, Nica, Victor New Side Characters For His Route: Theodore, Gilbert Murphy, Oswald Simmons Love Language: Physical Touch (I'd just like to say that I called this.) Who Falls in love first: Kate First Kiss: Kate Kisses Jude First Snu-Snu: Chapter 24 Both Premium ends Jude's Fate Tragic End: He will die bearing a grudge against/hating the world. Route CW: Violence, Smoking, CA, Neglect, Mentions of a child's death. Jude's Age: 28-30. Jude's Heritage: Irish-British Jude's Curse: 13th Fairy (An endless cycle of hatred) Jude's Fated End: To die with a hatred/resentment against the world.

Plot: In a nutshell, Kate is trying to find one good thing to like about Jude prior to her term of FTK (fairytale keeper) ending, as per their first promise made together. If she finds one, Jude must fulfill any one request she has. Amidst working for both Crown and Raven, Kate tries to come into her own in terms of standing as Jude's equal, seeing the world as he does, and essentially saving him from not only own his death wish, but from being framed for treason against their country.

My thoughts: Jude's route is very lively, it's got a healthy amount of funny moments, action packed moments, and it's quite wholesome overall. However, it still retains some darkness in the sense of his past, and the fact that he's literally on this tightrope of life and death.

Kate: She is not afraid of voicing her thoughts and feelings, or speaking sarcastically to Jude. I almost died when I read that she stuck her tongue out at him LOL. There's this scene where Ellis tells her she's thinking out loud when she doesn't realize it, so she apologizes. A few minutes later after she greets Theodore, she sees Jude behind him:

Kate: ....And thanks for your hard work too, Jude. Jude: Can ya please stop greet me so sourly? Makes me wanna vomit my mornin' tea. Kate: I wonder if I'm under a curse that'll kill me if I don't say something sarcastically...

So, she is very courageous and gutsy, but she also thinks things through. There are times where she wants to act because she loves Jude and wants to be there for him, but she also knows not to act rashly because her movements can hurt him and Crown, so she opts to bide her time instead.

Out of all of her versions, I think she is the one who gets the most frustrated, the most angry, and laughs the most at certain situations such as getting locked in the office with Jude. She is very optimistic and kind, but not saintly kind.

She is a fighter. She learns self-defense and how to use a gun, a lot this takes place off screen, but she does develop this over time. Which is nice because it's more realistic.

Jude & Kate Relationship: Starts off very rough, and I say it's an enemies to lovers trope, but no one actually hates the other person, they simply don't get a long and it has that vibe. Jude is trying to kick her out of Crown, and Kate is trying to find something she likes about him.

Overall, they bicker and banter a lot. It's cute because in MLE Kate says, "If I say one thing, he has 10 things to say", and in BLE Jude says, "If I say one thing, she's got 10 things to say." They're adorable together.

One scene I loved was when Jude is being attacked by a group of thugs in his office after closing hours, and Kate barges in with her gun. She yells at the men to stop what they're doing, and then she tells Jude to step away from them. And so, Jude and Kate are having this full blown conversation as they're surrounded by these thugs as to why she is at his office, who's fault it is, etc, etc. And when the head thug starts to complain, both Jude and Kate say, "Shut up!" at the same time. This seems like it actually becomes a thing for them, they say it in MLE as well.

Were they childhood friends? No. That was an AU thing only, and a clever misdirection from Cybird. I think key take aways from Dark IF and Prison IF are that they made promises to each other, and that Kate tries to return to little Jude in Prison IF. Additionally, it does hint that two children were involved in Jude's past, just the other wasn't Kate, it's his sister. While some may be disappointed by this, I loved that it turned out this way, it surprised me.

Love Language: Physical. Touch. Lemme say it again. Physical Touch. While their relationship is a slow burn, it's not without it's tension along the way, and the pay off is hella worth in my opinion. I just knew that Jude was going to tear into her, and he does.

But more importantly, Jude touches Kate a lot especially before missions. For example, in BLE just before Kate goes undercover at a criminal organization that is using Raven products, she and Jude are in his office reviewing the plans, and while he does this, he touches her bare skin, kiss or bite her, and then after the mission he'll make love to her. Why? Because Kate made another promise to Jude earlier in the route that she would never die before him, so he doesn't have to suffering loss ever again. So, prior to any missions, he'll touch her up to a certain point like a promise she won't die, and then finish once she returns safely. I can't...he's so damn precious.

They love each other very very much, but Jude doesn't like saying the words. "I love you." Not because he's a tsun, but because they're easily said. So, he'll convey his love to Kate with words like, "I'm taking you to hell with me." If you read his side stories, he'll tell you just how much he loves her, and he admits that there is no other woman in the world that he could ever love like her.

Important Side Characters: Theodore: 21 y/o and he works in the sales department at Raven. Every one calls him Theo, even Kate. It seems that he's worked for Jude for a long time as well. He's very personable, and chatty, and he gets nervous about things like when the president forgets his custom fountain pen as he's on his way to business meetings. He even says to Kate and Jude that Kate is his type, and everyone is like.....um what? I'm really happy that Theodore isn't a traitor. I like him. I thought Cybird would use him the way that contract worker in Jude's first story event would be used. But no, he's just a loyal young man who cares about his job. I hope to see him again.

Oswald Simmons: He is the doctor who treated Jude and his sister after Jude memorized an entire medical textbook in a week. After Jude's sister was sold off, Jude ran to Oswald and asked that if he put Jude through school, let him lodge with him and provide him food, then Jude would pay him back with interest. Oswald agrees and in time, Jude does pay him back with interest. Oswald treats everyone equally, and he finds Jude's intelligence and ability to memorize things amusing. While he does not offer to take Jude in of his own initiative, Oswald does have a soft spot for Jude, as he tries to gift Jude a new pocket watch upon graduation and the success of his new company. He even tries to dissuade Jude from seeking revenge that will only force Jude into be lonely. In the route, he tells Kate to relay a message to Jude, that if he ever gets into a pinch to comeback and he'll give Jude a run for his money. To this day, Oswald still has the watch that Jude refused to take.

I honestly, hope that they reunite one day. Jude doesn't wish Oswald any ill-will (though he calls him a weirdo), and he wished Oswald a long life when he said goodbye.

Gilbert Murphy: He is a high-ranking officer of the British military who colludes with the Privy Council and a criminal organization to frame Jude treason and building military weapons. However, Gilbert truly does think that Jude is going to the moon for monetary purposes. While he is being an asshole for framing my beloved, his motives are to protect the people from potential weapons that can be created with Jude's research. Still, it's sullying Jude's innocent and pure motives. Still, he testifies in Jude's favor and takes the blame of the dead privy council member, as his own form of justice for trying to frame Jude due to his becoming blinded by his obsession to protect his country.

The other villains: Ellis: Ellis is Jude's right hand so he is heavily involved with the plot, especially in MLE. We know about Ellis.

Nica: Darius asks him to investigate Jude, so he does. Twice, he offers information to Jude that he's gathered after he lets him know he's aware of what he's building.. The first time, he tells him that a part from the criminal organization Jude has already been dealing with, the British military want his plans too. And wouldn't it be something if they teamed up to get Jude's research. He asks if he can snatch the robin away from Jude, but Jude says she doesn't belong to him, and no matter whom she dated she belongs to herself.

Nica leaves the bar after getting scolded by Jude, but prior to that, he tells Jude that the robin is in the most danger because she's around him. A few chapters later, Nica appears again and tells Jude that his assumptions based on the previous information given have come true, and because he didn't let go (of Kate), he's letting her know the facts. After he explains the situation to her, he tries to whisk her away on a date, but Kate declines. While Nica is a "playboy", it seems that he does care for Kate's well-being.....I am letting my current knowledge of his past events, and bond stories influence me by saying this.

At any rate, at the end of BLE, Darius asks Nica why he follows his orders so complicitly, and Nica says it's because he's on the winning side, and to him, Darius will be or is the winner. Darius is satisfied with this, and when he leaves Nica looks at his palm and says that he will be the happiest someday. It's already been established that becoming the happiest person is important to him, but this has now been reinforced.

Victor: Lore crumbs are very little, but what we do know is that when Kate asks him if he is angry, he tells her that he's forgotten loneliness a long time ago.

Further, when he approaches Jude and asks if Jude is hiding something from him and Crown, he tells Jude he has the means to help him. Jude asks if Victor isn't the one hiding something, and remarks that's why Harrison hates him so much because he knows he is lying. Victor simply smiles and stays silent. Upon leaving his study, Victor does tell Jude no matter what, he doesn't want their freedom disturbed and those are his true feelings.

Further, Victor later tells Kate in the BLE that when Jude says he abuses his power, Jude wasn't lying about that. Later in chapter 24, all of Crown are gathered together in front of her Majesty the Queen for a very important meeting. Victor speaks saying that they wish to grant Kate the position of fairytale keeper permanently, and when Jude finds out, he leaves angrily. In the middle of all this, the Queen never utters a word.

I don't think we learn anything new that we weren't aware of before with Victor to be honest, unless I missed something while reading. But, it's nice to know that we should see something big for his route. We better for how under wraps his lore is kept.

Jude's age: He can't be any older than 30 because in his Past Records he definitively says that he is five years old. In the MS, Oswald states the events he recounted to Roger and Kate took place over 20 years ago. Kate reason's that if it was 20 years ago then Jude had to be under the age of 10. I think he's 28-30.

Jude's Curse: Jude's curse was born when his heart was completely broken, and he vowed to get revenge on those who made him and his sister suffer. It's manifestation was described as a black flame of hatred in his heart. Essentially, Jude has entered a vicious cycle of hatred that never really ceases. Jude fuels this cycle by acting in a way where people want to get revenge on him, and a part of that is because he want's to die.

Jude's Fated End: Jude is fated to die bearing a grudge/resentment/hatred against the world. Jude himself says that his death will not be an honest one. Some have made comments that his fated end is a bit underwhelming, but I am pleased that Cybird left Disney alone, and stuck with Grimm's ending for the 13th fairy. I love it because no one knows what the fairy was thinking or what happened to it, it just simply disappears. This is something that is mentioned quite a bit in Jude's route.

In the MS there is a beautiful chapter with all of Crown gathered for a fireworks beach day, and while Jude is looking at the fireworks, Kate is looking at him. She thinks he is like a firework, beautiful, dangerous if you get too close, and then simply gone.

In BLE, Kate watches a Sleeping Beauty play hosted by local town children where she is staying and even though she knows that the outcome of the fairy is unknown, she is hoping for a different outcome. When the kids stick to the fairytale, it's then she realizes that Jude too - while still stuck in his cycle of hatred - will die. He will never know happiness, and disappear like the burnt body of cigarette smoke, like a firework in the sky.

In chapter 18ish, while Jude is being held captive and being tortured by the British military for information on Crown, he laughs self-mockingly and says that this is the perfect fit for him to die bearing resentment/grudge against the world.

Is Kate Trying to find a way to break the curse? No. Unlike Alfons and Roger's route, Kate is willing to accept Jude's fate, stay by him, make him happy and be his reason to live. That is her sole purpose, to make sure he doesn't die. Kate is obsessed with keeping him anchored to the world no matter the cost, and she even mentions to Victor that even though no fated ends have ever been avoided, that doesn't necessarily mean they are tragic.

Is Jude happy by the end of the route: Yes. Though he won't admit it out loud being the tsun tsun that he is, Jude's first glimpse of happiness occured when he told Kate about his dream and she didn't laugh at him. By the time he puts her to sleep and leaves her behind, he tells her that being genuinely liked wasn't so bad. And of course, Ellis asks if he can kill Jude in his BLE epilogue because it's obvious that he's happy......Jude tells him he can go die, and Ellis is like okay okay. FR though E, I need you to calm TF down.

The depth of his love for her is so great that he tells her that if she ever tries to run from him, she should just kill him. The reason is because she is his only happiness - she is the moon that he's been trying to reach for so long. He'd have no reason to live if she left him.....

Hmmm, here are some of my favorite parts in his route:

He tries so hard to protect Kate, from throwing her out of a window when a house is on fire and telling her she died in that fire so she wouldn't have to return to Crown, to lying to her and accusing her of making a 10,000 £ mistake and firing her from Raven, and other things.

I love that he even assigned people to watch her secretly after he's left her behind in a seaside town, with the intention of doing so for a long time since she is known throughout London for said involvement with Jude. He says things like, if she can live a calm, normal life, then that's enough for me. So, he's resigned to love her from afar.

He does everything in his power to protect even Crown from getting involved with his research so they aren’t crushed and hated by the privy council or others, even undergoing brutal torture.

Jude promises to make Kate the happiest he can before they go to hell, and there are many, many more things he does to endear me even more to him. I nearly cried when he introduced Kate to his sister at her grave he had made for her, saying she (his unnamed sister), was the only family he had left.

Even though he knows his dream of going to the moon is going to be difficult, he is more determined than ever to achieve it, because he's got two promises to keep.

Ultimately, we have our teasing Jude and Kate kicking ass together, and loving each other until their ends come.

Ugh, I'm gonna make myself cry. Well, this is it in a nutshell. Sorry for rambling!

[genericpuff]

Do you have any entry level recommendations for someone looking to learn a bit more about Greek mythology? I’d love to read up on it but I’m not sure how to find reputable sources and avoid Americanisation.

I mean, at the risk of sounding crass, you're likely going to run into Americanization no matter what you do because America itself was built on many cultures, especially that of Greek philosophy and storytelling.

Buuut if you mean you wanna read some actual Greek myth content that AREN'T modern American spins on classic tales, Emily Wilson is a popular choice for many people dipping their toes into translated mythology as her translations are both simplistic and concise in their language choices as well as fun in their structure to read both internally and orally (iirc her translations are done in iambic pentameter which is very familiar to anyone who's ever read Shakespeare). I've been working through her translation of The Odyssey, it's been pretty enjoyable :)

I've also heard great things about both Lattimore and Fitzgerald, the latter of whom I will be reading next after I finish Wilson's translation. That said, I haven't read either of their works yet, so take my recommendation of them with grains of salt! (I hope you enjoy them though if you check 'em out! If you beat me to it, let me know how they went!)

OH also, I know it's sorta the opposite of what you're likely looking for as it's VERY influenced by modern contexts, but thanks to another anon I recently got into Destripando la Historia which is a super fun animated Youtube series that retells the stories of various different gods from different mythologies. If you're into stuff of the goofy anime variety, you might enjoy them, it's a Spanish series but you can turn on captions to read the translations! It's super beginner-friendly, it covers a lot of different stories and myths without getting into so much detail that it's overwhelming (but gives you a good kickoff point to start with!) and the songs and animations slap, Afrodita is one of my favorites haha

Overall the biggest advice I can give you if you're trying to avoid fanfiction-y / "Americanized" retellings is just to cross-reference. If you find a retelling you really like but aren't completely sure of its legitimacy as a functional retelling, keep reading, watching, and learning more. It's a skill like any other, and the more you read, the more you'll be able to pick out what's a legitimate retelling from studied scholars vs. what's fanfiction that you don't need to take too accurately or seriously LMAO

And honestly, nothing wrong with the fanfiction stuff! Mythology, in its very nature, changes over time, it's an inevitability and many of the myths we still draw from today are often derivative in and of themselves from even older versions that pre-existed them (see: Ovid).

it's okay if your introduction to Greek myth is through derivative fanfic, stuff like Disney's Hercules and even Lore Olympus ARE fun to consume for a lot of people and make for a good entry point into learning more about the myths!

What's frustrating - and what I tend to criticize the most here - is when the fanfiction gets advertised / sold as legitimate retellings; when the fanfiction grossly misrepresents the actual mythology and yet tries to claim it as legitimate anyways which results in fanbases that are running around with completely false information claiming it as fact. If you can give the team behind Hercules credit for one thing, their rendition may not be completely accurate, BUT the folks who made it never bragged about how much smarter they were than other people about Greek myth or call themselves "folklorists" when they didn't even have any formal education/training/etc. in it cough like another creator we know cough 💀 If we want to make a comparison between LO and a Disney film in terms of how it grossly misrepresents the themes and cultural contexts of the original stories it was drawing from... Disney's Pocahontas does exactly that 💅

So if you want to avoid any "grossly" Americanized versions of Greek myth that are borderline disrespectful to the stories they're drawing from... yeah, that's usually a pretty indicative red flag LMAO

But outside of those very specific scenarios, just have fun with it, there really is no "right or wrong" way to engage with the mythology if you're simply just wanting to learn more, the beauty of it being mythology is that it's very diverse in its mediums and thus you don't have to be restricted to learning about it exclusively through academic translations or lectures. Of course, there are cultural intersections with these myths that shouldn't be ignored, we always have to treat it with care when engaging with it so that we aren't overwriting another culture's traditions or beliefs - but if you're simply wanting to learn about and entertain yourself with some amazing stories that have quite literally stood the test of time, do so however you see fit :)

[kurishiri]

5 facts you maybe didn’t know abt alfons bc his route is coming (no major spoilers)

at some point after entering the greetia household, he changed his way of speaking. this is especially prominent in the japanese version, when he goes from the more casual or “crude” way of speaking all the way to keigo (or “polite” language). the gap between his polite language and the actual words that comes out of his mouth is part of his humor thats especially prominent in japanese, and a may be bit lost in translation in english.

he is really good at cooking. this is shown in his profile, but he does not show off this skill often. he only shows this skill twice in the entire history of ikevil so far. once in his main story, and once in his second birthday story. so enjoy those moments when you run into them!

in the japanese version, he uses honorifics with everyone (including kate), except one person. and that person is elbie. he calls everyone by the —san honorific, including kate, and he still does even after they get into a relationship. he calls william and victor with —sama, probably because by all rights, they are his bosses. the fact he doesn’t use honorifics with elbie unless he is playing a role or feels like it, in which case he may use —sama (he seemingly switches on a whim using “lord elbert,” “lord elbie,” “elbie,” and “elbert”). the fact he doesn’t use honorifics with elbie indicates a very close relationship, as doing such (in japanese, this is known as [呼び捨て], or yobisute) with those who you’re not close to can be considered incredibly rude.

his last name, sylvatica, means forget-me-not (the flower). specifically, it comes from its scientific name, myosotis sylvatica, and it bears the symbol of remembrance, coming to symbolize various events and people, along with a symbol for alzheimer’s in some regions. since the olden times, it has also been a symbol of true, everlasting love and devotion. this is the surname alfons chose for himself sort of on a whim supposedly. it is unknown if he himself chose the name while aware of its meaning (and thus was trying to convey his wishes through it), though considering he was surrounded by forget-me-nots in a scene during elbie’s route, it may be a reflection of something deeper on the storyteller’s end.

despite his attitude and all appearances, he grows attached to others very easily. this is pretty evident in his past records with elbie, and even roger’s past records. he can’t really bring himself to separate from elbie and when he has thought about it, he initiated a game with him instead of just leaving. and also he was quite drawn to roger at one point in his life. even now, roger does have a place in his mind at least (i have the story regarding this point translated here if you’re curious, but note this is jp only content as of this post). and even with kate, it’s evident that since the beginning, he didn’t want to leave her alone. even before he realizes his own feelings, he’s pretty drawn to her and actually thinks of her as “cute,” “adorable” or “darling.” and even in other routes, especially elbie and roger’s, he seems to show at least some attraction toward kate. so don’t let his facade fool you that much!

10 things you should know before you read alfons route.

[ryin-silverfish]

Sorry for the very late reply: I stayed off Tumblr for like, a month or so. But this is a long reblog with a lot of interesting points I wanna respond to.

Honestly, the most common form of JCT doesn't stem from A Chinese Odyssey. It's inspired by the webnovel that's kinda a fanfiction to said movie, Biography of Wukong.

The predecessor to BMW, Asura Online, takes a lot more inspiration from the webnovel than its spiritual successor, and even tho BMW isn't trying to be a direct continuation of AO, I would argue that some of its themes and worldbuilding still slipped into BMW.

You mentioned not seeing JCT in the game according to my definition, and I feel like it's a matter of exposure. For someone who has Chinese as their first language, they are gonna to be 1) exposed to a shit ton of JTTW media, and 2) see a lot of interpretation about the novel proliferate that an English audience is completely unaware of.

BMW is not the most extreme or common form of JCT, but the general ideas are still recognizable. Like, just because it doesn't make all the gods evil, or all the yaoguais innocent victims, doesn't change the fact that the main narrative is still one of Oppressive, Conspiring Pantheon vs. Oppressed Yaoguais.

(Example: the lore entries' implication about Lingji and the Yellow Wind storyline is that Lingji is creating the weird stone Buddha heads and the Fuban yaoguai to 1) collect Lingyun, the "soul" equivalent, and 2) artificially create a threat so that he can rescue the Flowing Sands kingdom from it and convert them to Buddhism.)

(Instead, the Yellow Wind Demon became the rescuer and the kingdom started worshipping rats, which was why its people were all turned into rats.)

(Or, the most obvious one: the Western Heaven's genocide of the Yakshas in the Bull King family backstory.)

(As for Erlang: why do you think you find him inside a painting, which, according to the lore entries, is implied to be the result of him asking Maitreya for refuge from the Celestial Realm?)

And it's made even more jarring by the fact that the game wants to create a facsimile of the original novel through quoting its poetry and imitating the vernacular novel dialogue style, and make allusions to SWK's role as the Mind Monkey, without realizing how it conflicts with the Biography of Wukong-style interpretation.

You mention the lore entries, and that's actually my favorite part! Both the Ming-print style illustrations, and their simulation of the Zhiguai short story style.

But, again, there is a dissonance. The funny and strange Zhiguai-style entries are noticeably different in tone compared to the "main storyline" entries about major characters and backgrounds, which is written like modern short stories instead of a classical Chinese text translated into Mandarin.

And my problem is not that the adaptation is different, that it may want to change the allegory or reinterpret the themes for a modern audience.

It's the feeling that they want to have it both ways——be faithful to the novel (or at least create a facsimile of faithfulness), yet also stick to the Bio of Wukong style popular reading that proliferates in modern JTTW media for mass appeal.

And to me, the dissonance in the two narratives weakened the thematic coherence. Frankly, if it sticks to one or the other, I wouldn't have been writing these critiques: if it's a proper exploration of the original novel's allegorical themes, I'd be praising and loving it, and if it's JCT thorough and thorough, I'm just going to be like "Yeah, not for me" and leave it at that.

But it's this mixture of things I love and things that frustrate me that drives me to write and get down to the bottom of those conflicting feelings, which has little to do with JTTWR's original posts and his attitude towards adaptations.

Lastly: I'm very much coming from the perspective of a native speaker complaining about Chinese JTTW media and popular interpretations. My own opinions are not mainstream in the Chinese JTTW fandom either——JCT is so popular precisely bc it has mass appeal.

Just a thing to keep in mind.

I'm a Theravada Buddhist. I saw many people interpreting the story and meaning behind Black Myth Wukong, differently. But I hope the devs team didn't intend to insult Buddha Dhamma by recreating this new story and distort the meaning of Buddhahood or Enlightenment itself..

I don't know if they intended to insult Buddhism, but I can say that their presentation of Buddhism in the game is disrespectful.

@ryin-silverfish recently posted a wonderful essay on what's known as the "JTTW Conspiracy Theory," which is a method of interpreting the story by twisting details, making the heavenly hierarchy look evil. The game follows this method. I recommend that you read the essay:

I unknowingly ran into the JTTW Conspiracy Theory a couple of years ago. A Chinese article claimed that the Buddha lies in the novel. This is my rebuttal.

[kirkodiletears]

This used to be a part of a post, but I decided to make it into a separate one, because it speaks of crusual things for understanding SVSSS, it's plot and it's characters.

As I found out recently, there's a huge misunderstanding going on in the English-speaking segment, probably dew to an English translation of SVSSS (only a speculation, I myself never had this problem, although I read in several other languages as well, so I can compare) concerning the fact whether or not PIDW was originally planned by Airplane as a yaoi with bingqiu as an OTP. (Spoiler: yes, it was). Some readers are mislead by two quotes, that they take as a contradictory, which in truth, they are NOT.

The first one is from a Chapter "The story begins". It is the last chapter of the novel, after this the extras start. And this particular chapter is a culmination: this is where the truth is reveled. Like in a detective story, where we finally find out, who the killer is. This meant to become a real "bomb", that makes a reader go WOOOW!!! And this is THE KEY for understanding the whole story: the plot and the characters, especially Luo Bing-mei (and Luo Bing-ge). And it speaks about the original INTENTIONS of the Airplane, that he betrayed in order to please the crowd and that came true in the universe of the System. (original scrapped outline(c))

The second quote, from the extras, on the other hand speaks of an EXISTING PIDW, (original outline(c)), that he actually wrote, but never finished, because he died and woke up in the Universe of the System. And it gives us a glimpse into the way he planned to finish it.

The first quote, from the final chapter:

Shen Qingqiu looked him up and down. “You don’t look crushed at all after all this foolish messing around ended up completely changing your own novel.”

Shang Qinghua said, “You can’t say it like that ah. Maybe you think it’s just all foolish messing around that isn’t worth a damn, but for Bing-ge, your foolish messing around is probably the meaning of this entire world.”

... holy s***, Great God Airplane Shooting Towards the Sky was able to say something like that?!

Shen Qingqiu was terrified. “F***. You didn’t turn back into the original character, did you?”

Shang Qinghua said seriously, “Don’t be like that. I’m also a young person with literary ideals. Of course, I have my own reflections and emotions.”

Shen Qingqiu laughed coldly. “What literary ideals? How come all I saw in the original work was shameless fanservice?” Not to mention his hand speed that could produce ten thousand words a day, and the courage to even occasionally explode with twenty thousand. If he didn’t have such equipment, there was no way 《Proud Immortal Demon Way》 would have been able to hold out before it was serialized!

Shang Qinghua spread his hands. “You think that I always wrote shameless content that lacked any integrity from the very start? I’ve also written belles-lettres4 before, but they were all unpopular, so I had no choice but to go down a path that catered to the masses. It must be said that writing novels is a very lonely undertaking. Rather than writing a stallion male protagonist who’ll be stereotypical in the end, it’s more in line with my philosophy for writing to create the current Bing-ge━this kind of weirdo male protagonist whose character is a bit more complicated, has contradictions and conflicts, and has a rough destiny.”

Shen Qingqiu concluded, “So, your philosophy for writing is to write about gay guys?”

Shang Qinghua: “Do you look down upon gay male protagonists? Works of art and artists all like to create gay guys. Belles-lettres favors gays, do you know that?”

He waved his arms wildly and passionately. “Cucumber Bro, if the System hadn’t chosen you, this faithful die-hard reader, perhaps the plot wouldn’t have deviated so thoroughly, thoroughly to the point that it deviated all the way back to my original scrapped outline. Even though the me back in reality━who couldn’t endure the loneliness and was under financial pressure━chose to finish writing 《Proud Immortal Demon Way》 according to other people’s preferences and what they found cool... now, all thanks to you, essentially everything that I wanted to write has already unfolded in front of my eyes. Cucumber Bro!”

He patted Shen Qingqiu’s shoulders with deep sentiment and solemnity. “You... are the chosen one; as for my career, I have no more regrets!”

... why did it sound like the System and this world were both products of Shang Qinghua’s resentment over scrapping that outline and going with what was mainstream?

Shen Qingqiu, who shamefully became this kind of “chosen one”: “Who’s your faithful die-hard reader?”

Shang Qinghua waved his hand and one-sidedly declared his victory. “I’m not going to talk to you; you’re an anti-fan.”

Shen Qingqiu was about to say, “I’m only an anti, not a fan!” when he suddenly heard Shang Qinghua starting crooning something like, “Emotions are warm, kindness hard to bear, lips moving together, desires turning the evening to the next morning, never resting from dawn to dusk.” The crucial point was that melody, which sounded extremely familiar to the point that it made Shen Qingqiu’s hands and teeth itch. He pointed at him and said, “Shang Qinghua, what are you singing?”

Shang Qinghua continued to croon. “The warmth of emotions makes gratitude hard to bear. Lips to lips, locked in a kiss. Let this night linger ‘til tomorrow’s dawn. Day after day, night after night; never to end. Will tomorrow be another today? When ‘til Zheng Yang reaches its zenith? As Zheng Yang ascends, the voice of Autumn stirs. A sheathless Xiu Ya, a spurt of cold nectar. Tragic pleas amidst choked sobs, thus in vain; for he rises again5...”

Shen Qingqiu was in disbelief. “F*** you—why don’t you just try and sing another line?”

Shang Qinghua said, “Great Lord Shen, why aren’t you listening to what I’m saying? You must never go around casually f***ing people. Bing-ge will go crazy. I’m telling you, this Resentment of Chunshan is equivalent to Shi Ba Mo6. You two are the legendary national homos, do you understand? I have no problems with you shutting me up, but ultimately it’s useless. You can’t possibly make all the countless people in the world shut up...” (NB, Ch 81)

The second quote, from the extras:

【 Basic completion of Proud Immortal Demon Way’s original outline achieved (slight deviation in romance plotline); objective complete. Retrieving function to return to original world; download complete. Activate Return Home sequence? 】 Basic completion of the original outline? That he agreed with. All the holes that needed to be filled had been filled. But this “slight deviation of romance plot” wasn’t quite right. Bing-ge was now fully gay; how could you say that was a “slight deviation”? Ah, fine, fine, in fact, in his original outline, Bing-ge hadn’t even had a romance plotline; he had been doomed to fade away, alone and unaging forever. If you insisted on adding a romance plotline, all right, that was whatever, so putting aside all the System’s rambling…this meant he could return to his original world?! (Seven Seas, Ch. 26)

Basic completion of the original outline and filling it's plotholes - THIS is what's talked about in this quote! Not the scrapped original outline!

The English translation, which I only read recently, in my opinion is not very clear, in comparison to, for example, Russian translations, and not just the most popular version by Псой и Сысой, for ex: there are more than one, and they all pretty much nailed it. 感情线 used in original (that's what, apparently, caused the doubts for some reason, in spite that the quote itself absolutely clearly speaks of 《Proud Immortal Demon Way》’s original outline, the one big "error of a novel", that needed to be redressed, and not the scrapped original outline that never saw the daylight) itself refers to a "romantic plotline". So the author himself tells you, that his original Bing-ge had none. But how come? Why is that? Bing-ge, as we know, has got a huge harem, he for sure cannot be the case of dying alone without love!.. Or can he? Apparently, this is exactly his fate - no love. And the Airplane, the way he planned the original scrapped outline, knows better than anyone else - there's, well, none. The Protagonist's harem is nothing to do with romance whatsoever (see the quote below from the forum as an example, what the readers of PIDW themselves think of the relationship between Bing-ge and his harem). It all has to do with protagonists coolness and power and getting everything, including all the women, because he is super powerful and he is the center of that universe. It's about power, it's about lust, it's about influence and control, and showing, who the real boss is. But not love or romance. PIDW is not a romantic novel in a slightest: its a third rate pornography and a ode to toxic masculinity, so distasteful and disgusting, that the resentment of it's author with his own creation was powerful enough to create the whole new universe (The System) just to correct it! And this particular quote speaks of Bing-ge not having ANY SIGNIFICANT RELATIONSHIP, LOVE. Псой и Сысой for translating 感情线 in this particular case use much more explicit and profound "заслуживающие упоминания эмоциональные привязанности" ("the emotional connections worth mentioning"), rather than abstract "romantic plotline". Because the only significant person in his life pushed Bing-ge away. (And we know, who that person is, thanks to the System Universe - his shizhun.) Romance has nothing to do with the amount of partners he fucks - they are not of any romantic or emotional significance for Bing-ge. This is how his relationship with the harem is described by the PIDW reader's forum in the novel:

"Airplane really doesn’t know how to write romance plotlines, best if he just doesn’t. I feel like Luo Binghe doesn’t have feelings for any of his wives, he just wants to use them. And I can’t see any of those women with real moving emotion for him. "(NB, Ch. 73)

So - no romance for Bing-ge in PIDW, the Airplane didn't grant him this privilege and happiness. And yes - the ending for the tyrant he's become in PIDW is not happy in a slightest.

So, binqui did not appear out of nowhere, and yes - it has always been there from a beginning, in the core of everything. Implied. This is not only canon: it is the exact essence of it, the base, the foundation, which explaines everything that happens in the novel and even beyond - in PIDW, where the mighty protagonist that has everything, except the only one thing he really needs - the love of his shizun - is doomed to an eternal unhappiness and loneliness.

[rainbowsky]

Good Morning Rainbowsky, hope you are well. I am just wondering with these latest songs..."the drifting "Life of Us" is no longer protracted"... in essence, do you think this is hinting at possible significant changes coming soon? Like millions of their fans, I love the MVs, they are so well produced, it would be grand if ggdd move forward in that direction to produce more MVs, movies and so on. Hopefully they will start recording their songs in English as well, they would be so well received with the international audience.

This is in reference to a previous post.

Hi dottie911, I'm well, thanks! Hope you are too. 😊

That's just an imperfect translation of something that makes more sense using the Chinese song names. The phrase using the Chinese song names reads:

孤舟上的「夜行人」，望着《灯塔》的方向，《漂流》变得不再漫长

The "Night Walker" on the lonely boat looks in the direction of "The Lighthouse", and the "Drifting" no longer seems so long.

vs. the one from my post, which read:

The "Night Person" on a lonely boat, looking towards the "Beacon", the drifting "Life of Us" is no longer protracted.

It looks to me like an attempt to tie all the song titles together into a little story that flows along with the themes of the songs. It's just that you can't say, " the 'Life of Us' no longer seems to be long" because that sounds weird in English. "Drifting" makes more sense in that sentence, but it doesn't simply translate using the English song titles.

The translation I used in that post comes from the official fan club, and they've chosen to write it as 'protracted' to imply 'neverending/tedious' rather than simply 'long'. Everyone would want a long life, few would want one that feels protracted - drawn out, tedious. As you can see they threw drifting in there too, to try to bring it together more, but it just doesn't work fully in English.

Perhaps a Chinese speaking reader can chime in here and do a better job of explaining this than I have.

I wouldn't read anything too dramatic into this. Let's not get carried away and over-interpret everything GG and DD post.

As I've said before, it's unrealistic for fans to expect anything earth-shattering from them. They're both into a groove of focusing on living their best lives and working on the kinds of projects that make them happy. It's highly unlikely they're going to be making any big public announcements or changes, or do anything that will destroy the equilibrium of their lives or disrupt things for the stakeholders connected to their careers.

Re: singing in English - both GG and DD do sing English songs fairly regularly. However, their audience is primarily Chinese-speaking and Chinese is their native language, so it makes sense that most of their work is in Chinese. It's also better for GG to be seen as a Chinese artist appealing to Chinese audiences - particularly with his debut album - rather than as someone who's singing for/appealing to foreigners. If he appeared to be appealing too strongly to foreigners he'd face backlash.

There are still more songs coming, one of them might be in English but I'd be surprised. This album is very personal, and GG is Chinese. His thoughts, ideas, concepts will all be in Chinese.

As an international fan I love it when I can understand what GG or DD is singing, but I enjoy the Chinese songs just as much.

[queer-ragnelle]

i saw you asked if someone could translate escanor and unfortunately i do not speak french but it got me thinking is there arthurian media in spanish and/or portuguese you'd like to read? your project is such a wonderful labor of love and i'd like to contribute if i can. i've worked as a live translator before. i can translate stuff!!

Hi there!

This is such a kind offer! Unfortunately I don’t have any texts in Spanish or Portuguese to suggest. It could still be a valuable resource for someone who does, though.

Does anyone have a Spanish/Portuguese medieval text that needs an English translation?

I do also have a handful of Spanish speaking people on my discord server who lack resources in their native language. I was able to scrounge up Spanish copies of John Steinbeck’s and Howard Pyle’s retellings to share. Then I used a Google translator to make PDFs of some other stuff, but those are obviously inferior to the official translations of the first two. This only works for books that aren’t scanned, so most of my collection can’t be handled this way.

Anyone out there have a retelling or academic source books they’d like to have in Spanish/Portuguese?

Let us know!

[mavkarants]

Sometimes I wish westerners could read ruzzian. Or at least use google translate when writing articles about ruzzians and their opinions.

"Russia believes they have a right to invade a foreign country because russian speakers are being bombed."

But what ruzzian news says is...

"Ukrainians and Ukraine never existed. This is our historical territory. We need to flatten "ukraine" and take back what is ours! They are all dogs and bugs anyways!"

And that is news channels with millions or ruzzians watching and supporting. They will legit say the most rancid dehumanizing shit possible about Ukrainians and western media still tries to "portray the situation evenly". They still say "innocent russians in russia dont know! They have no idea whats happening! They dont support the war!". I'm sorry they have no idea? All their news outlets are covering the war and talking about how Ukraine is their land. ruzzians still have access to other media. They CHOOSE to support and believe that Ukrainians are subhuman and deserve to die because they dared not to be ruzzian and dared not to speak ruzzian.

Why aren't westerners covering what pootin says? What he actually says about Ukraine and Ukrainians? Most articles never bring up the batshit crazy things he says out loud about Ukrainians. If we compile the shit pootin says about Ukraine and Ukrainians then you will not be able to tell the difference between him and hitler or mussolini. Or even the north American churches when they spoke of natives. If anything with how much he says out loud he would probably come off even worse.

My friends dad even said that "she [me] doesnt know everything about whats going on in Ukraine and Russia." His claim was this was actually all about resources. Guess how many languages he understands? One. English. Me? The holy trinity. Ukrainian, Russian, and English.

They are completely ignorant of how much moscovites hate us and for how long they have been appropriating our history and culture. They have no idea how many excuses under the sun moscovites will use to push away and hide the real reason for all of this.

[iridescentmirrorsgenshin]

I have no other place to yap this to so I apologise in advance.

I find it interesting in Alhaitham and Kaveh’s voicelines they tend to talk about each other A LOT in a way of complaining. Such as in Alhaitham’s Good night voiceline where he says that he’d prefer that Kaveh wouldn’t be home at all because all the chaos and noise he makes in the dead of the night. Or in Kaveh’s Good Morning voiceline where he says that he hopes that you don't run into someone who ruins your day first thing in the morning.

I guess it’s what makes other people think that they despise each other’s company. Yet they’re always viewed as a pair and Alhaitham could’ve kicked Kaveh out of the house ages ago. But what’s your opinion on that?

Hiya! there's no need to apologise, this is a safe space for all haikaveh! When I tell you your ask is scratching my brain I mean ITCHING, I have so many thoughts about this part of their dynamic so thank you for enabling me <3 This turned out to be rather long, so I hope it’s helpful to you!

The contention in both Alhaitham and Kaveh’s character stories and voice lines seems to be to create intrigue about the two as individuals, and, in turn, their relationship.

Alhaitham’s ‘good night’ voice line instantly serves as a contradiction to his character. It’s interesting, and telling, that Alhaitham, who is essentially Kaveh’s landlord, and mentions this within his fourth character story, alludes to Kaveh by using ‘roommate’ rather than ‘tenant’. ‘Landlord’ evokes a position of authority over the tenant, whereas ‘roommate’ indicates an equality between two people sharing a house – since it’s Alhaitham who advocates for the term ‘roommate’, it’s telling that, as opposed to what Kaveh believes, Alhaitham wants to establish equality between them.

In terms of what Alhaitham says in this voice line, it explicitly raises a contradiction in the form of a question: if Alhaitham is truly bothered by his roommate’s antics, why doesn’t he simply evict Kaveh?

This is relevant as this question is also posed when we initially meet Kaveh within the Archon Quest, as Kaveh states he dislikes Alhaitham’s personality, to which Alhaitham responds by saying if he bothers Kaveh so much, Kaveh always has the option to move out of the house – to which Kaveh perceives as a threat, only to then dismiss this as Alhaitham ‘changing the subject’, which seems to mean that this ‘threat’ is taken as baseless. As this isn’t called back to, this seems to be the case.

There is no real threat of eviction, and regardless of their disputes, Alhaitham ultimately gives Kaveh no ultimatum to move out. In fact, as discussed here (page 27), as we are meeting Alhaitham and Kaveh for the first time, Alhaitham allowing Kaveh to live with him contradicts his established character of living a life free of inconvenience. This instantly creates intrigue around his and Kaveh’s dynamic – who is Kaveh to Alhaitham for this exception to be made to Alhaitham’s peaceful way of life?

(An additional note of interest is that Alhaitham’s solution to the noise problem seems to be more uncomfortable than calling on Kaveh and telling him to stop his work. Alhaitham says that he’d rather not wear his noise-cancelling earpieces to bed, implying that he does so when noise is a problem at night. However, there’s no mention of Kaveh being stubborn when confronting this issue, which is why he takes to wearing his ear pieces, or any mention of confrontation at all. From this voice-line, it seems that Alhaitham avoids interaction by opting for the least comfortable option, which can be a contradiction to his character. As this is a rather brief voice-line, it’s difficult to ascertain why, but I like the idea that Kaveh is productive at night, and Alhaitham prefers not to impose on Kaveh’s work process – but this is more a headcanon than evidenced interpretation.)

Returning back to the contradiction within this voice-line, at a surface glance, this does appear to be a general complaint about Kaveh, and this can be found in Alhaitham’s lines about Kaveh, and also when discussing Tighnari. Alhaitham refers to Kaveh as ‘overly sensitive’, and ‘constantly making a fuss’.

These can easily read solely as complaints, but when looking to the original CN translation, another interpretation can be found here. Alhaitham describes Kaveh as ‘caring’ or ‘tender’, which is exactly how Kaveh is described within the 3.6 special program (as per minimushiroom on twt), which can allude to how Kaveh is considerate to a fault, in that this serves as a detriment to himself.

This can be seen in Alhaitham’s other Kaveh-centred voice-line, in which he describes Kaveh buying keychains in order to provide meals for sick children, even though healthcare is free in Sumeru. Alhaitham clearly holds the view that this was a redundant action, as Kaveh, being in debt, most likely doesn’t have the money to spend on such investments that are, evidently, dubious.

As Alhaitham provides a rational view here, this contrasts with Kaveh’s act of generosity fuelled by emotion – which highlights the contention Alhaitham has with Kaveh, in that Kaveh places himself in dangerous situations for the sake of others. However, as this can be perceived as a solely derisive line, this essential context is lacking, and can be easily misconstrued. (I think the EN translation here also coincides with this narrative, as minimushiroom notes that the original CN has Alhaitham refer to Kaveh’s sensitivity in a positive way, rather than contemptuously, as the English can be interpreted as.)

Kaveh, similarly, can be seen to complain about Alhaitham in his own voice-lines. This can be seen in the 'Good Morning' voice-line you've mentioned, where Kaveh complains about having to see Alhaitham in the morning, which 'ruins' his day. Additionally, Kaveh's voice-lines discussing Alhaitham refer to Alhaitham as ‘infuriating’ and not wanting to give Alhaitham the satisfaction of thanking him, despite Alhaitham helping him out. However, there is more nuance in these voice-lines than Kaveh simply ‘disliking’ Alhaitham, as this dislike is never stated - rather that he and Alhaitham have a difficult relationship in comparison to the ‘close’ friendship of their past.

Kaveh describes their relationship being a ‘mixed bag’, of both negatives and positives, as well as establishing a thorough understanding of Alhaitham, where other people may misinterpret Alhaitham as they ‘don’t know him well enough’. Additionally, Kaveh notes that he knows that Alhaitham can present himself in a more ‘likeable’ manner, but that Alhaitham refuses to do so, which refers to Kaveh’s contention with Alhaitham discussed within his character stories. This, in turn, generates curiosity, as it appears that Kaveh holds an in-depth knowledge of Alhaitham that the player isn’t privy to.

Referring back to Alhaitham’s ‘Good Night’ voiceline, the question raised is, if Alhaitham has a problem with Kaveh, why doesn’t he just evict Kaveh? And the answer can be found by digging further into Alhaitham’s character stories. Looking to Alhaitham’s fourth character story, it states that he is aware of the dissatisfaction Kaveh may have with their living arrangement but  that ‘it matters not to him’.

This means that he is aware that Kaveh may be unhappy with having to rely on someone else for a stable livelihood, something which his pride doesn’t naturally allow, but that this is also exacerbated due to their previous falling out and the current contentions Kaveh has with him.

At first, this can seem rather abrasive, which does fall in line with Alhaitham’s egoism as this doesn’t directly impact ‘the self’ (discussed further here), however, what immediately follows is Alhaitham’s belief that he and Kaveh are mirrors, in that his own perspective of the world will be enhanced - in the og CN, ‘completed’ -by Kaveh’s own world view.

The implication generated here with the explicit term ‘mirror’, is that, just as Alhaitham benefits from Kaveh, Kaveh, in turn, can benefit from Alhaitham. (As a side note, it is interesting then that the voice-lines in question can be seen to mirror each other – Kaveh mentions Alhaitham in ‘Good Morning’ whereas Alhaitham mentions Kaveh in ‘Good Night’.)

Returning back to Alhaitham’s character story, rather than merely reflecting each other philosophically speaking, I’d say that this also points to their respective progression as people, not just scholars.

To me, this is reminiscent of what Alhaitham says to Kaveh in A Parade of Providence – being ‘correct’, ultimately, doesn’t matter, as there is no ‘correct’ path in life, meaning that there is no ‘correct’ philosophy to shape and guide a person. Rather, Alhaitham asserts that, ultimately, their opposing philosophies are not the issue that exists between them.

The issue that does exist, then, can be surmised from Alhaitham’s actions during the event (discussed further here), in which he researches into Sachin to gauge his influence over Kaveh’s father journeying into the desert, with implicit hopes of providing closure for Kaveh, and potentially assuaging Kaveh’s guilt. This is a personal act with a personal motive; the underlying motive being concern, as opposed to an assertion of ‘correctness’.

In my opinion, I think Alhaitham’s actions during A Parade of Providence are a direct reference, and fulfilment, of Kaveh’s fifth character story. I’ve discussed here that the main reason for the ending of their friendship was them asserting the correctness of a philosophy over the other, and proposing one philosophy as the ‘solution’ to the other’s perceived flaws.

Here Alhaitham can be seen to use Kaveh’s past as the reason for his excessive altruism, implicitly referring to Kaveh’s guilt over being the supposed catalyst for his father’s demise. This final comment of Alhaitham’s appears to be the first time this has been mentioned between them, and it’s enough to be perceived as weaponisation – leading to Kaveh severing their friendship.

In A Parade of Providence, Alhaitham is shown to only have taken the role of commentator to research into Sachin, whose research we are told (by Kaveh), he has no explicit interest in, and it is heavily implied that the only reason he looked further into Sachin, was to prove to link between Sachin and Kaveh’s father. Alhaitham seems to want to absolve Kaveh of this past guilt in hopes that Kaveh will stop placing himself in the cycle of self-sabotage.

For me, when viewing this as a parallel, it highlights that Alhaitham’s motivation in speaking out during their days as students was out of concern for Kaveh, although while holding egoism as ultimately beneficial, and therefore perceivably ‘correct’. The ‘issue’ they’re currently debating is not expressly stated, and although it is unclear if Kaveh understands the implication (as discussed here), as ‘correctness’ has been overturned, there seems to be little left than the personal.

Relating this back to Alhaitham’s fourth character story, for me, Alhaitham referring to Kaveh as a mirror isn’t just referring to Kaveh as a scholar, but a person as a whole. As Alhaitham seeks to improve himself, personally, through Kaveh, it seems that he hopes to be able to benefit Kaveh in turn.

As for Kaveh’s complaints regarding Alhaitham, these can be contextualised within his own character stories. As Kaveh ultimately severed the friendship between him and Alhaitham, Alhaitham offering Kaveh to live with him, despite Kaveh revoking his previous understanding of Alhaitham (as discussed here, page 67), causes Kaveh to be overtly suspicious.

In Kaveh’s Old Sketchbook, it is mentioned that Kaveh believes there to be an ulterior motive for Alhaitham inviting him to share a house, as he believes that Alhaitham wouldn’t do something for someone else without an exchange.

Kaveh, then, openly distrusts Alhaitham due to this unspoken motive, and although he takes on chores to ease his sense of guilt of being a perceived burden, a contention arises here. Due to their previously ended friendship, and with how Alhaitham hurt Kaveh, and how Kaveh may believe he hurt Alhaitham (discussed here), Kaveh sees no reason for Alhaitham to want him around – he treats their relationship as an exchange, asking what Alhaitham could possibly want for him.

Although Alhaitham views Kaveh as a mirror, and therefore, respects Kaveh’s perspectives, Kaveh can potentially view their opposing philosophies as a negative rather than a positive as he had done in the past (as discussed here), as it, perceivably, was what led to the end of their friendship. In this, Kaveh views Alhaitham as disparaging him and his views. As mentioned in his character story, he has no reservations in telling Alhaitham of his debt as Alhaitham has already seen through him in the past, and yet again, upon meeting at the tavern.

Although Alhaitham perceivably views him unfavourably, and his comments and complaints appear to propagate this interpretation, Alhaitham also seems to have no issue with keeping Kaveh around, and interacting with Kaveh, regardless of the problems Kaveh expressly has with him.

To Kaveh, it could be that as Alhaitham has already seen the worst of him, and appears to have no real issue with their stilted rapport, there is no point in donning a front and using niceties. He is open with his issues with Alhaitham, and, in turn, Alhaitham is open with him.

This appears to be a dual negative and positive for Kaveh, as he describes Alhaitham’s constancy as ‘the most unshakable part of one's past is a friend that will never change’. In this sense, his unsteady rapport with Alhaitham is reliable, and therefore, has no reason to change.

Clearly, there is a large disconnect between Alhaitham’s view of Kaveh and how Kaveh perceives Alhaitham’s view of him. As previously mentioned in the discussion of A Parade of Providence, there is an unspoken ‘issue’ between them, and this can be interpreted as dire misconceptions borne from miscommunication.

As discussed, Kaveh and Alhaitham reference each other a lot in their respective voice-lines and their character stories. This alone is enough to connect them, regardless of the cruciality of their mirror motif, as they are key figures of each other’s past, present, and seemingly, future. Despite this, it’s as you say, there’s a common perception to view them as mutually disliking each other, and, to me, this is based upon their first initial interaction, and the way they refer to each other in their own character stories and voice-lines.

It’s notable that Alhaitham refers to Kaveh in his voice-lines when Kaveh is not explicitly relevant, such as in his Good Night voice-line, and, most interestingly, when Alhaitham discusses Tighnari.

This could be because Alhaitham knows of Tighnari through Kaveh, but as this connection isn’t stated, it reads as Alhaitham mentioning Kaveh for no other reason than to complain about his perceived naivety regarding relations with others. But as this is a voice-line designated to discussing Tighnari, it’s interesting, and incredibly noticeable, that Alhaitham then discusses Kaveh instead. It’s similar to what Kaveh can be seen to do, and is observed to do by others, in relation to discussing Alhaitham.

When it comes to Kaveh, however, his complaining of Alhaitham can be seen to link with his process of dealing with troubles in his work. In his Hangout, he states that he takes his work to heart because he cares about it, which is expressed in the same quest in which Kaveh and the Traveller run into Alhaitham in the House of Daena (discussed further here, page 219).

Drawing a parallel here can further contextualise Kaveh’s complaining of Alhaitham – if Kaveh truly disliked Alhaitham, there seems to be no reason for Alhaitham to remain so relevant to him, both in conversation, and in private thought. Additionally, Kaveh is described as an empathetic person, and when dealing with others, he is thusly seen to look for another perspective rather than act on his own subjective perspective.

Looking at his voice-line on Dori, for example, expresses his distaste for Dori pressuring him for Mora due to his debt, however, he also empathises with her, and states that he senses there must be a reason why Dori acts in such a way.

In contrast, this empathy can be perceived as missing in his treatment of Alhaitham, and therefore Kaveh complaining about Alhaitham can be perceived as blatant dislike – which contradicts Kaveh’s benevolence and empathy, which A Parade of Providence particularly stresses.

Kaveh’s treatment of Alhaitham can be seen as deliberately contradictory, as it can cause the player to question why Kaveh reacts in such a singular way to Alhaitham, just as why Alhaitham reacts in a singular way to Kaveh.

In reference to Alhaitham, whilst Alhaitham tends to complain about Kaveh in turn, his actions reveal him. He invites Kaveh to live with him, gives no eviction date, pays for Kaveh’s tabs willingly, (supposedly) buys wine as an apology, and goes out of his way to ensure dialogue with Kaveh – which contradicts his own character stories, in which he appears to favour solitude, and only greets those he considers his friends ‘with a nod or two’.

Moreover, Alhaitham is established as considering Kaveh a necessity to his ‘peaceful life’ he seeks to maintain (as discussed here), and can be seen to implicitly consider Kaveh one of his priorities within his Story Quest.

The idea that Alhaitham dislikes Kaveh seems to stem from Alhaitham being taken literally when voicing an opinion, or an issue, or simply joking, in reference to Kaveh – despite his character stories highlighting that Alhaitham often uses sarcasm in order to subvert expectations.

Alhaitham expressly states that he prefers to be seen as inscrutable, and unknown, by the general public, and uses subversion as a means to do so. In these character stories, Alhaitham openly encourages speculation of his own words.

Without this context, it seems easy to simplify Alhaitham to purely speaking factually when first addressing Kaveh in the Archon Quest – stating that having to explain things to Kaveh is ‘a nuisance’, and yet, it is overlooked that Alhaitham stays in the House of Daena, regardless, knowing Kaveh would find him again.

On the whole, in my opinion, Kaveh’s feelings towards Alhaitham cannot be simplified to ‘dislike’ as this is dually an inherent misunderstanding of his character, and of his and Alhaitham’s relationship, just as Alhaitham’s feelings towards Kaveh cannot be simplified to ‘dislike’ for this same reason.

In the beginning, Alhaitham and Kaveh are not supposed to be perceived as friendly, as Kaveh denies the association of ‘friends’, and Paimon describes them to the Traveller as ‘problematic’.

The reason for this is due to their character arcs being intertwined – the core issue is posed in Kaveh’s fifth character story, in that the question is raised if a compromise can be reached, if both sides of the mirror, can be balanced. At the beginning, they are entirely at odds, but even footing must be found.

I’ve noticed a shift in online discourse after Cyno’s second story quest, as the progression in Alhaitham and Kaveh’s relationship is noticeable – deliberately, due to the flashback scene within their house (which I’ve discussed in detail here, page 122). To me, it’s more common to form the assumption that Alhaitham and Kaveh dislike each other in the Archon Quest, but with recent developments, and, hopefully, future ones, this perception is being overturned in online communities. Perhaps that’s just wishful thinking, but I’m still hopeful!

[tiddiesoutwhenthetisout]

"stop asking me to 'tolerate' shitty things. 'ride it out'. what if i just killed everyone and then myself?"

- achilles before leaving the myrmidons to die, probably

[rigelmejo]

Something that always annoys me is the idea only 1 language learning method works. Which is not true. While it may be possible that, for a particular individual, only a few out of many study methods may work well enough for That Individual to make progress and stay motivated... that doesn't mean all the other study methods won't work for anyone else out there, or that those few methods will work for every other given person.

Obviously if you've been studying a while, then you already figured out what kinds of things work for you and don't. If you're a beginner, just wading into studying?

I would suggest you simply look for study methods that: 1. Teach you new things regularly, 2. Review and practice things you've learned, 3. Include studying things you need for your particular goals (for example if your goal is to read X book then the study materials at some point should involve reading practice and some words the book contains, if your goal is to talk about Y then the study materials should include some information about pronunciation and words you'll need to be able to say).

As you can imagine, a TON of study materials will meet these requirements. And you can study a given skill in a LOT of ways.

(Reading is my focus lol so just for reading, a beginner might: do vocabulary study with lists or conversations with native speakers or watching shows and looking words up or listening to dialogues with a transcript like in a textbook or graded readers or a picture book with word labels in the target language or a video game with labelled objects in target language, all of those things as long as your vocabulary is improving or reading practice is happening would help you make progress). So to improve reading skill as a beginner: you could study with a textbook, a podcast with transcript, a classroom or tutor with words written down in target language (like TPRS), a video game, a TV show and a translate app on your phone, a friend you talk with (who either writes words down or you look up words you hear with a translate app), a friend you text with, srs flashcards like anki (provided there's text) etc. As long as there's new words, and/or you're practicing reading, the study method may work. If it works will come down to if you can stay motivated doing it regularly, and make sure you regularly learn some new things and review/practice things you've already studied.

So consider those things when you see people selling a study method as a product (especially when it's costing you money). Consider if it teaches you NEW things, and are those new things related to your goals, and how MUCH new stuff will it teach you before you finish it? Consider if it provides review or practice, or if you can use it's materials to review on your own making up your own method, or if you'll need to do separate review/practice.

So examples:

LingQ. Can it teach you many new words? Yes, thousands, since you can import any texts you want when you get done with their provided material (I have no idea how much their beginner material covers though in terms of words... I would hope 1000-3000 words but that can be researched). Is your goal reading? It's suited to reading, so you will practice and review often with it. Cost? I think it was $12 a month when I last had it, and the price may have increased. Is it worth it? Depends on a learner's needs. I found it was wasting my money, so I chose to use free tools like Pleco and Readibu apps - since those apps are suited for Chinese learners and have better translations, Pleco has better paid graded reader material if I was going to spend money, and both Pleco and Readibu let me import texts so I can learn thousands of new words just like LingQ but free. Now that I'm not a beginner, I often use Microsoft Edge to read chinese... since I can still click-translate words easily (all my web browsers have that tool free), and Edge's TTS voice is helpful for pronunciation and sounds quite good. I read webnovels online so Edge works well. But it's translations aren't as good as Pleco or Readibu, so if I still needed translations more I would use them. So... is LingQ a good study method? Its certainly a study method marketed to buy. Well... the method is suited to improving reading skill, at least. It costs money, which is a negative, but it does offer a lot. However: everything it does regarding reading can be done free with other apps or sites or web browsers on their own. So if paying money motivates you to read... sure. LingQ does have a few word tracking features a learner may find worth the money, keeping in mind the actual read-to-learn method can be done free without lingq. (Also... while LingQ is a valid option for improving reading, if the learners goal is speaking then it would be important to think of what study activities the learner will do OUTSIDE of LingQ to improve speaking... because I've seen how LingQ is marketed as "how to learn a language" but it's only focused on some skills. It has vocabulary and grammar in some sense, since you'll read a lot and encounter new words and structures. But it doesnt have speaking or writing practice at least last time I was on it. Those activities would need to be worked on, on your own).

You can do that kind of cost/benefit contemplating with any study method material you see being sold. Amother example: there's a beginner Mandarin course called Mandarin Blueprint. It teaches like 800 words. Thats all. It may be worthwhile for a beginner... who still needs to learn 800 common words. But if you already know a few hundred words, the benefit of the course is less, you'll need to find a new material to teach you more new stuff soon. And the price was like a few hundred for the course... which for me personally was too much to spend, when I had already learned 800 hanzi from a book that cost me 12 dollars and 2000 words from a free user made memrise deck. The course claimed to get a person speaking, competent, but anyone not a beginner would say speaking basically with 800 words is nowhere near the level of working in Chinese or just doing a lot of daily life stuff, or reading/listening to media. (Although for the motivated beginner if you're learning 800 words on your own like I was, its definitely close to the point of jumping to learn more words and start reading kids and teenager books, and watching easier shows if you're willing to look new words up). So to me... Mandarin Blueprint felt like overselling some basic beginner materials. (Again when I know several other things that teach beginner stuff either more in depth so HSK test prep classes, and college courses, or that teach beginner stuff to the same depth as Mandarin Blueprint but free).

Some study materials aren't going to act like they teach everything. I've seen chinese courses just for learning to speak tones better and general pronunciation - probably worthwhile if your goal is to improve speaking and a teacher could help improve the issues your having. But a learner needs to be aware for that course that they'll need to study vocabulary on their own, its JUST a pronunciation improvement course.

[depoteka]

infuriating when you've spent countless hours since last week translating movies for a movie festival and then you see yet another post on the internet saying "omg why aren't subtitles exactly 100% what is being said in a movie ://". killing myself

[sysig]

Okay but what if (Patreon)

[shrews-studies]

Graduation exam tomorrow, guys if I survive this I'll be the most carefree person on earth for the next 2 years

[morganaspendragonss]

hate working in translation sometimes, i had a client come back to me today like ‘ummm sweaty i think you need to check this translation, it says the child is male when it’s not specified in english’

bestie…….thats literally just how portuguese (and spanish and arabic etc etc) works

[lloydfrontera]

i mean this in the least weird possible i promise but. i think that you get an extra layer of delight in reading tged and 약 파는 황태자 if you're used to consuming korean content. i'm not saying you're missing something important from them if you don't do this but,,,, i do think there are certain little details and humor that probably don't hit quite as much if you're not familiar with some of the culture and humor lol

it's just the little things, like lloyd calling javier "this punk" or "this guy" even while talking directly with him, because it feels sorta awkward in english, but if you're used to watching series or movies in korean you can almost hear the tone in which he's saying it.

or when javier is teasing lloyd and he hits too close at home and lloyd just goes "hey" but you can almost heart the "야" which is very close but not quite. or this little 'haah' he does when he's kind of frustrated or thinking hard about something.

or that you don't quite get why it's such a deal that julian started calling lloyd 'older brother' cause the translation doesn't use the word 'hyung'. or that the point of javier and lloyd's bet was that if lloyd lost he would call javier, someone younger than him, 'hyung' which would imply he's older and is a form of showing respect or affection. which is completely different from the 'master' they used in the translation. or how sweet and kind of sad it is that theodore still calls rakiel 'hyung' even when the whole court expects them to be against each other.

or just in general the way the dialogue flows feels much more natural when you consider that it was originally written in korean and not in english

it just,, small things that you don't quite notice unless you already have experience in dealing with a different language than the one you were raised with akjshdkja